並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E9%97%9C%E9%9F%B6%E6%96%87-%E9%97%9C%E9%97%9C/%E6%AD%A3%E9%A1%8E%E6%89%8B%E8%A1%93%E6%89%BE%E5%9B%9E%E4%BA%BA%E7%94%9F%E7%9A%84%E8%87%AA%E4%BF%A1%E6%8C%87%E5%AE%9A%E6%83%B3%E8%A6%81%E9%80%99%E4%BD%8D%E5%A5%B3%E6%98%8E%E6%98%9F%E7%9A%84%E4%B8%8B%E5%B7%B4feat%E5%88%B0%E8%99%95%E9%83%BD-7fwZSvIuiBs/