並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/118-%E4%BE%86%E5%8E%BB%E7%99%BE%E8%B2%A8%E5%85%AC%E5%8F%B8%E5%9D%90%E6%B5%81%E7%B1%A0/id1506018589?i=1000537915328